I Ain’t a Killa Podcast
2. Katherine Mary Knight: The Australian Cannibal
Katherine Mary Knight is known for a lot of things...her charm, sexuality, and... CANNIBALISM?? This story just gets more and more outrageous the longer you listen.
Lead Investigator: Carter
Content Warnings:
Current in Crime- vigilantism
Katherine Mary Knight- mentions of cannibalism, conversations about mental health, rape, animal and child abuse
Resources:
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/vigilante-shadowvision-wants-to-stop-little-rocks-serial-killer
https://murderpedia.org/female.K/k/knight-katherine.htm
Images from the episode: https://www.instagram.com/p/CS9gvdMrisY/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Transcript: https://iaintakillapodcast.buzzsprout.com/1834054/9065327-2-katherine-mary-knight
Follow us on social media:
Instagram | Facebook | Twitter | TikTok
Katherine Mary Knight is known for a lot of things...her charm, sexuality, and... CANNIBALISM?? This story just gets more and more outrageous the longer you listen.
Lead Investigator: Carter
Content Warnings:
Current in Crime- vigilantism
Katherine Mary Knight- mentions of cannibalism, conversations about mental health, rape, animal and child abuse
Resources:
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/vigilante-shadowvision-wants-to-stop-little-rocks-serial-killer
https://murderpedia.org/female.K/k/knight-katherine.htm
Images from the episode: https://www.instagram.com/p/CS9gvdMrisY/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Transcript: https://iaintakillapodcast.buzzsprout.com/1834054/9065327-2-katherine-mary-knight
Follow us on social media:
Instagram | Facebook | Twitter | TikTok
Hey, y'all welcome back. Episode two. This is Carter. This is Elwha and Erin, and this is the, uh, wait, this is I, and I can look podcast. I was to say, this is the
Speaker 2:Episode. Yes. Thank you for joining us again. If everything goes as planned, we should have this episode up at the same time as we drop episode one. Yes. But usually we'll do a weekly episode every Monday, every Monday. We'll record on Sundays, but it'll be up and available the following Monday. All right. Are we ready to get started with, um, current and crime?
Speaker 1:Yes, I am finally because my computer is from 1985, like a lot of serial killers. Okay. This article is actually from July 9th, 2021, but this is actually really interesting. And I have so many questions because you know, like sometimes you read headlines and it's like, what is going on? So there's a vigilante in little rock named shadow vision. And he is, we wants to send out a warning to a serial killer or a suspected serial killer in little rock Arkansas. And he says, I am hunting you right now. We definitely got to drop this picture on like social media, because like, this looks like some vision, like cyborg, like smoke. I'm impressed. Like I wonder if he'd be at the cosplay doing
Speaker 2:This, like I need to know exactly
Speaker 1:Is it. And then it's like, I don't know that I'm getting, I'm getting slightly like vibes too. Like, it's just, it's just all over the place. Let me shut up. I'll read the article. This is from crime news, um, by Gina Tron. And, um, it says a self-professed superhero who calls himself shadow vision has been patrolling the capital Arkansas valley to hunt down in a parent serial killer in the area on Thursday, he told a follower on his Facebook page that he was in little rock this week, quote, unquote, hunting the serial killer. I know that the serial stabber is keeping an eye on my page here. Shadow vision wrote on his Facebook in may. So this was a threat to you. When I find you, I will show you what I do to serial killers. I'm hunting you right now. And it says there have been four knife attacks, three of which were fatal and little rock since August 20 and investigators believe they are connected. According to the Arkansas times, the victims of the stabbings appeared to be chosen at random. And the texts have been brutal. Surviving victim, Debra Walker, 40 43 was stabbed 15 times. Oh my God. Yeah. Like late surviving. Yeah. She's not, she's observed this. We'll say 15 times. I wouldn't. I mean, I'm not even trying to be funny, but like one time, it's just like, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like enough to like get people about it. Like 15 times I like, um, oh, she's okay. Like mentally, because that's fine. Um, Larry Mitt Christianson 64, Jeff Welch, 62 and an unidentified man known as old school, uh, did not survive the attacks, shadow vision whose real identity remains a mystery. Somehow he has a Facebook[inaudible] at this point, definitely. Y'all like romance
Speaker 2:And the police are like, this is cute. And you're giving people hope. So we're not going to like, take this super seriously, whoever it
Speaker 1:Is. They not like regular. They don't like work at home Depot like, but then my outfit
Speaker 2:Is, so you're saying some type of skills. So nerves have like really, really intricate cause plays. He designed his own costume and like put it together. That doesn't mean he's not somewhere. I don't know, like making milkshakes to making milkshakes.
Speaker 1:I want to know his dimensions as well, because I feel like in order to even be some sort of intimidating in an outfit like that one, you at least gotta be like tall or some sort of like unnecessarily fit or something like that. I want to interview him. Like I'm gonna reach out,
Speaker 2:Reach out to us, um, shadow[inaudible] we promise we don't
Speaker 1:with the police and we'll with the justice system. So we're not going to be like, oh, we should look on their, on their Facebook. We should definitely, we should definitely go on Facebook. We'll keep you up. They on his Facebook or like what's going on with shadow vision because I'm interested now. Um, he says, I am shadow vision, a real life superhero, his Facebook bio states. I protect the innocent at whatever cost. I would sacrifice my own life to save an innocent life. Oh, that's what I'm saying. Like, just file. Um, the supposed vigilante claims to have exterminated quote unquote, uh, two other serial killers years ago. Once again, we would definitely have turn you in because you are not even taking this serious.
Speaker 3:[inaudible] according
Speaker 1:To the Arkansas times though, that information has not been verified. He told oxygen.com via email on Friday.
Speaker 3:Again,[inaudible]
Speaker 1:Is funny as. Like that's my brand, a white man like us. Anyway, we can talk about that. Um, yeah. So he's actually, did I call via email on Friday that one of the quote unquote exterminated killers was in North Carolina while the other was in Arkansas back in the 1990s. So he was old enough to kill somebody in the 1990s. And we're well, we're at least like 20 in the middle of twenties, maybe 30 years past. So
Speaker 2:He must be winning. Then he must be in his late forties, fifties, and he still feels he's got the skills and the, the down let's see what you got shot at, or maybe[inaudible].
Speaker 1:Um, and I also love hunting high ranking gang members who don't
Speaker 3:[inaudible] I got a darker scratching, no
Speaker 2:Questions. Cause some gang members take better care of the community. I suppose that authority it
Speaker 1:Was away. I'm sorry. It's giveaway. And it's definitely, probably given like,
Speaker 2:I mean, anyone who has the privilege to walk around and be a bedroom vigilante visibly on Facebook and emailing news sources, the
Speaker 1:Email and people. Yeah, they definitely, well, at least I didn't not be like, well, I'm not going to take the identity away from them like that. They're not like, um, check them off shadow vision and really have a black resident named myself. They're not going to name yourself a black, you know what I mean? Like a black, person's not going to name themselves like black lightening, black Panthers, or there's always like this electricity powers for superheroes. And it's always like a black noir, you know? Like, what is it that the boys or something like that, whatever somebody is black, it's always like new are black. I
Speaker 2:Didn't realize that character was supposed to be black. Like, as you're saying that I'm like, where was that person? Black. I
Speaker 1:Think he's, I think he was, I think they made it a point to also point out their peanut allergy, which is like the cop now. Right?
Speaker 3:I'm not saying don't have allergies.[inaudible]
Speaker 1:The reason I showed up in little rock Arkansas years ago is because the city needed help. He said over mail. The other reason that I have also revealed myself to Arkansas and the world 11 months ago is that I got tired of turning on the TV and all I hear is people losing hope. So I wanted to show them that they got something fighting. They got someone fighting for them out there. Give the people hope again. Um, the vigilante typically wears a steel helmet, Bulletproof chest back plates, shoulder pads, famed arm cuffs, handcuffs to, I don't know how to say S a I S strapped to their does SES. Um, I'll look it up later. Um, but I filled it out. So if you know how to say it, shoot us or shoot us a deal. And, uh, to Katana's he dresses in all black and when asked on his Facebook page, he said, it takes him about 20 minutes to get all suited up. Sorry.
Speaker 2:The people that we love, humility, talk to the people, right?
Speaker 1:Shadow vision told oxygen.com that he feels he's quote, unquote, getting close to catching the serial killer. In fact, he claims he already has his name. I am coming for you. He said, when asked if he liked to deliver a message to the terrier serial killer, I also want a one-on-one fight with you. Okay. Um, now this is okay. Cool. He's been attracting more attention recently after a popular tick talk video was posted about him last week, I cannot with this stupid city, the tic talker wrote stating that first her city has a serial killer and now a super hero, super hero to protect them. She included footage of the vigilante, the vigilante strolling the streets.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I wouldn't say that's a stupid city. I think that's kind of cool. It's nice that he cares. It's interesting. I just, I need to know his politics.
Speaker 1:I didn't really need to know cause it's all over the place for me. And that's also something. Yeah. And I'm real particular. Um, while I'm scrolling for this, I definitely want to apologize to any, um, nonwhite people who have peanut allergies, please don't come from me. I'll just have to be funny. But, um, he said, uh, when he said, why he revealed himself, it was very close. Uh, he said, the other reason I revealed myself, um, was because I got tired of seeing people losing hope. And then he said, so I wanted to show them that they've got someone fighting for them out there. That's very, I don't know. I mean, I know it's Arkansas, that's very, very specific as far as like, when it comes to like how people talk. I don't know. I'm gonna hold on to that. That they got somebody that it got some one find another, I don't know. Cause normally if, especially if somebody super proper too, they would say that I want them to know they have someone fighting for them. But the God part is definitely much like very Southern, but he's also from Arkansas, which is like, I dunno, could be kind of country
Speaker 4:Or whatever around. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.
Speaker 2:We're interested as a Ms. Division,
Speaker 1:If you, you know, shoot us an email or whatever, we will not reveal, you know,
Speaker 4:Five in 10 minutes details, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And if anyone listening is from Arkansas and has seen it,[inaudible]
Speaker 3:Googling this
Speaker 1:All night, please. Yeah, I need it. I need to do my life.
Speaker 2:She did straight into my veins. All right. Interesting. Um, I guess that's, what's current in crime. Maybe it's what's current in heroism.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Current and anti-crime right.
Speaker 2:Yes. I would stay in a super or an anti-hero. Like, I love like Harley Quinn, Deadpool vibes, better. Like, you know, China abide by the, the powers that be, but you know, just follow your own, your own conscience. And
Speaker 1:I wonder how they feel. That's why I really want to like them to shoot us an email to talk to us. Because in order for you to go out of your way, first of all, that early in the nineties, you have to really like you either super pro-police and you want to help them, or you're super anti and you're like, no, them. They're not doing a good job. I need to get out of here. That's true.
Speaker 2:We were going to go on his Facebook because I'm sure we'll do some research cause I'm sure there's gonna, there's gonna be more information. Yeah. It's he sounds very talkative.
Speaker 1:[inaudible] well,
Speaker 2:The guy he's like, I got things I need to know more about these two exterminated serial killers as well. Right? Not exterminate. I feel like there would be evidence of that for the high ranking gang members. Oops. You're to just have them up real quick, ask him some questions. Hawkeye. When he went, oh my God, we went to Japan. You said, I bet. You know, I'm going to do kill some bugs, go
Speaker 1:Not the KKK. Right. Not there's nothing. neo-Nazis right. He was like, nah, I got to kill some, some people who look different
Speaker 2:From gangs too. I don't know. I'm interested to learn more. Cool. All right. Y'all um, we'll be right back. Yeah. See you in a little while. Okay. Welcome back where I'm ready to get started on the main event. Card is going to be our lead investigator for today. So, um, go ahead. Yes. Okay. Cool. And the lead investigator, my name is Carter and this story is about Catherine night. Yes. Um, so if you're a super involved in true crime, you may have heard the story on other podcasts. It's I would say it's moderately well-known. Um, I will say it's interesting. It's not super, super well known in Australia, which is where it happened because the outcome of this case or the, the climax of this case, people felt that it was so gruesome that journalists and things like that came to like a common mutual decision that they didn't want to feature or glorify or romanticize any of, any parts of this that's how bad it was, which also good on them for like, I don't know, taking a stand like as journalists to like, I don't know, include information about like people who, who are doing terrible things, but not wanting to like, what's the word, like exploited that terrible situation, just to sell newspapers. I'm like here where the media will take it and just shove it in your face every second they can to get clicks, but yeah, content warnings, um, like I said, it's going to be pretty gory. At some point, there will be mentions of cannibalism conversations about mental health rape animal and child abuse. Um, it's a wild ride. So I felt like a roller coaster. Yeah, definitely get ready. All right. So, uh, Catherine Mary Knight was born October 24th, 1955. She was a Scorpio, um, which is not hard for me to believe that all shades Scorpios, I love y'all y'all are at the time, um, under the right circumstances, she had all the wrong circumstances. So we'll start with that. Um, her parents names were Barbara Han. I believe it's pronounced is R O U G H a N. Rowan, maybe just rolling. And they don't pronounce the H I'm going to say rolling. I'm just going to go with that and can night, um, like I said, the story picks taste takes place in Australia. Um, and it was a little chaotic on the job. So Catherine it's mom, Barbara was originally from Aberdeen and new south Wales is hunter valley and she was married or in a long-term relationship with our first partner, Jack who shared that's where she got the last name Rowan. And she had already had four kids with him when she began her affair with kid night, one of his coworkers. So when they started their affair, she left two of the children with Jack and then said to the two other to live with her aunt and Sidney, which I always think of super weird when people split up kids after a breakup. But I'm wondering why they didn't at least just keep all four of them together. I couldn't really find an answer for that question. Um, I do know that both of the families were really well-known in their small town and it was conservative and rural. So like when the affair became known, it was a huge scandal, pretty embarrassing for all the parties involved. Um, but so I guess that led to them like ultimately splitting up and moving elsewhere. Um, so Catherine was the daughter of kin the new partner and she's also a twin. She's the younger of two twins. Um, I love twins. Yes. Twins are super interesting until you think about it too hard though. It's kind of freaky. And her twin sister was one of the few people she was ever close with, um, except for her uncle whose name was Jack, but he died in 1959. Um, I mean, sorry, Jack is the dad, the uncle's name was Oscar. He died in 1969, my bad. Um, but Catherine maintained, maintains she's still alive. Um, that his go still visits with her, which I think is really interesting. I mean, this, to say it doesn't, but you know, rentals. Um, so Barbara first partner Jack does die in 1959. I just mixed up him and uncle and the two children that had been living with him, moved into the night family home. So she still has her two kids that live with almond Sidney. And, but her other two kids are now living with her and her twins, Catherine and joy for the twins, his names, her childhood was pretty ridiculous. Um, Catherine's father, Ken was really violent and abusive. He was an alcoholic. He would beat the out of their mom, like on a regular basis in front of the kids and also rape her up to 10 times a day. Oh yeah. Wow. And I heard on one podcast that he would also do that in front of the kids. I see them in information I saw
Speaker 3:Online. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:Right. It's quite possible that that happened either way. Barbara would tell the children all about their sexual relationship, even when they were children and just like discuss it, linked her disdain for men and sex in general, um, which is definitely very poor boundaries with their kids. Um, Catherine also noted that she was sexually abused by a family members, not her dad. They like distinctly said that, but didn't name who she was sexually abused bot. And that continued until she was 11 years old. Um, there were some doubts about these accusations, but they were confirmed by other family members. So it happened. Um, and high school harnesses are both kind of seen as like bullies. Um, they fought each other a lot in school, but if anybody is like, I can talk to you about my sister, but you can't talk to them about my sister. So if somebody came at one of them separately, the other twin would like jump in and help the vet to defend the other sibling. Um, I resonate with that, right. I mean, hard to say, like, I love my sister so much, but we do fight a lot, but if anybody ever then know definitely going to pull up, um, but then on the flip side, they were also like they had like a, it was kind of described like Jekyll and Hyde kind of a situation. Like sometimes they were extremely well behaved and other times they were just complete terrorist basically. Um, she left school at the age of 15 and didn't know how to read or write. Yeah. But apparently this out of the ordinary for the area that they lived in, um, there was a huge like meat factory industry in their small town. And like basically the kids are just bought in time in school until they could leave to go start working. Um, so that's what she did. Um, she started out as a clothing factory as a cutter, which I'm assuming just means she cut fabric and garments, but later she got her quote unquote dream job of cutting. I think it's pronounced awful. It was like in a meat factory, like dealing with like cutting out all the innards and guts and stuff like that.[inaudible] I mean, to each his own, but interesting choice, whatever
Speaker 1:Your dream job would be, would depend on how you're socialized. Like if you're socialized to think that like it's either this or go work in the, you know, clothing or meat factory or whatever, then yeah. They'll probably wouldn't be like the sky for you. Right. But it's a no, for me, it's hard for me as well.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, she described in her own words that it was her dream job. Um, not too long after she was promoted to boning, which, you know, I didn't know. You want to do a whole lot of research[inaudible] In general, but I'm, I'm sure I quick Google will answer that for you. I'm just letting my imagination take me there. And that's as far as I want to go. So
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just gonna say, I'll just assume it's taking the bones out long. Good enough.
Speaker 2:Something along those lines, because with that promotion, she was given her own personal set up, but you're not. And so she hung over her bed, so they'd always be handy if she needed them. She did like for the rest of her life until she, you know, until the culmination of the we'll find out where she ends up. But yeah. Yeah. But she really loved her job, um, was borderline obsessed with it. Um, you know, and we all have our quirks, but one of the things that she did the past the time was to go over to where the pigs were being slaughtered and watched them out, their throats lit, you know, just simple.
Speaker 1:That's probably why I was at dream jobs. She wanted to slept slash my throat. That would teach her how
Speaker 2:Listen, oh, when I read this, I was like, what? This is, this is how you pass the time. Like on your lunch break, you just went over and watched
Speaker 3:The cookies die. That's a lot.
Speaker 2:Um, I will say, and I want to note this and I didn't really know where to note it in the story. She, at some point or another is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. And I'm sure you'll hear if you listen to other podcasts or read any articles about the story that that'll be named. Um, I want to super, super uplifts that having a mental illness does not predispose you to being violent or cause people to be violent in any type of way. But I will say that it does help me better understand some of the more, um, maybe attendees tendencies that she leaned into as a means to control people around her. So as we're getting into her adult life, I feel like it is relevant to know that piece. Okay. Um, so the first person that she dates very seriously as it was David Kellett, David Stanford Kellett, and he was said to be a fun chill guy. Um, they met at a job in the meat factory. Um, he was at to, to drink a little too much sometimes, but he doesn't at this point in time, um, he would get into fights, but overall he was generally well liked by the people who knew him. Um, they met in 1973 and by this time Katherine was known in the neighborhood or the community or in the town for having those hands. Because if David got in a fight, she would pull up and literally help him beat them up. Um, she would also get in fights on her arms and, and people just didn't mess with her. Supposedly she was a really, really, really big woman, like, like sturdily built tall, like strong, um, intimidating person because she got into a lot of physical altercations and then they didn't make it sound like she was losing any of them. So she was the aggressor in her relationships. She ran the show, um, when they decided to get married, it wasn't a decision that they both made. It was a decision she made. Um, and when they went to the alter, the service, whatever they pulled up on her motorcycle, she just had him until he was completely trashed. I don't know if they was like, he was trashed because he was celebrating or if like he had to be trashed or married. Eric, I don't know. But once they got there, Barbara Catherine's mom said to David, and this is a direct quote from him. The old girl said to me to watch out, you better watch this one or she'll kill you, stir up the wrong way or do the wrong thing. And you're. Don't ever think of playing up on her. She'll kill you. And that was mother taught me. Right. And then she went on to say, she's got a screw loose or something. Yeah. So that was, um, advice from his mother-in-law on his wedding day.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well that's like red flag, number one, like, is it number one?
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:I want to tell the fans, so this was you going to do, you're gonna marry me and ain't no if ands or buts about it. And then however, whatever happened before they got to the ceremony. I mean, I would relocate listen, but this is a major red flag. Like if your mom is telling me that you'll kill me and she's being dead as serious, um, I'm running like I'm leaving, I'm leaving the state, I'm leaving the country, but I got, got to go. Um, and you should, uh, because on their wedding night, he woke up to being strangled by a captain. I won that night,
Speaker 4:That night.
Speaker 2:And it was because he fell asleep after only having sex with her three times
Speaker 4:[inaudible]
Speaker 3:Oh,
Speaker 2:No way, too many strangle his way.
Speaker 1:Imagine if he couldn't get it up. Oh my God. That is so. That is three times. And you're strangling, not in a sexual way. You still got the energy to start with
Speaker 3:Somebody. She got an energy. She must
Speaker 1:Not have came. Like that must have been like, I ain't got no type of sense anyway, killing somebody on the wedding night. But like, girl, it's not that serious that
Speaker 2:Due to her. And apparently the violence only escalated from there. So he said after that, he was just like, oh, that's just fun, honey bear. I don't know.[inaudible]
Speaker 3:Marriage is extremely
Speaker 2:Violent with Katherine continuing to be the aggressor. I actually think I heard somewhere that he never retaliated or put his hands on her, even in some of decks. Terrible. Yeah. Um, one night David was like, you know, I'm going to get out with my boys. And I go to the pub. There's a Doris competition. I'm all about that. Doris, like, and apparently the competition went long. Um, uh, Catherine had already told him, you know, half the guys at home when it's time to be at home. And she called to the pub and the public's supposedly closing. And he was like, oh like, well, the games are going on, but I'll be home soon at the time. She's like super pregnant. David didn't get home soon enough for her liking. So she burned all his clothes up and smacked him across the back of the head would find pan, oh, oh my God. Yes. And what year was it? That is a good question. I think it's in their first year of marriage. So it still should be 1974, if not 1975.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say that frying pan was real like,
Speaker 2:Oh no Sean farm Penn. And this we know because he was so fearful for his own life that he fled the house, went to the neighbors and collapsed. He was hospitalized with a severe skull fracture.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Wow. Um,
Speaker 2:Catherine, but she is now back to being, you know, her charming, beautiful, friendly, like, well the hit himself and convinced David not to press charges manipulative. Wow. Yeah. Um, she also swung a higher iron him and left an iron pattern on his cheek at one point in time. Yeah. Like hit him with a hot iron in the face. Oh God. Yeah. Also like
Speaker 1:Domestic abuse situations like this one, it's like the woman who's the aggressor is so wild to me.
Speaker 2:It is wild. And I think it definitely plays into her ability to get away with some of these Youngs, um, which you don't get to say that of thing often, but I'm sure her being a woman helped her bait all kinds of consequences over time. Um, so in may of 1976, not long after having her first daughter, Melissa David was like, I'm over it. Like you keep hitting me. I'm trying to get inspect around. And he met another woman and left Catherine for her and moved to another town. It was called Queensland. I'm not sure how far it is from where she lives or is living at the time. But the day after that happened, Katherine was witnessed pushing Melissa stroller through town, but like super violently, like rocking inside the side and like running into like poles or like sides of buildings that she's walking. Maybe, um, somebody witnessed it. She was an admitted into St. Almost hospital in Tamworth where she was diagnosed with postpartum depression, which is frill. Um, and she spent several weeks in treatment. So when she got out of the hospital, you know, I don't know what this treatment looked like, but I guess it didn't work because she took the two month old baby and left her on an active train tracks shortly before a training was still proceeded to go into town, still in acts and threatened to kill several people. So she's just like when we got back on the train tracks, I'm going to go to the city and I'm going to terrorize basically. Thankfully there was an old man who can simply known as old Ted who was near the train tracks, foraging for food and saved Melissa minutes before the train pass. Wow. That's a miracle. Yeah. Um, and so Catherine was arrested and sent to say MOS, but signed herself out of the hospital after only one day signed herself out, signed herself out. So don't, I should have been 51 58 or like, you know, held for a cycle I had before. And in what world do you get to just sign yourself out? 24 hours has passed. I'm ready to go. Like I said, I'm good. Like I left the baby on the track so I can go into town and swing the ax. Like
Speaker 3:What? I don't know what this is.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, it was back in the day, but it's not that far back in the day. What year was this? Or[inaudible]. I mean, I think that's where sorta alive. My more, yeah, my step-mom was alive and she's 10 years older than my dad. Um, that's see. It's like when I listen to these stories and like all true crime stories, when you know something terrible is going to happen and you hear the back story, I always think like, okay, if somebody else had made a different decision at this moment, none of this would have happened. And this is one of those moments. If she wasn't able to get out of this hospital, I'm sure. Whatever terrible you're about to wouldn't have been able to happen. Exactly. And I, again want a name, like even in the sentencing at the trial, the psychiatrist made it, made it a point to say like her having borderline personality disorder is not what caused her to commit these heinous acts. Like she had that in her. You know what I mean? I only mentioned that because I think that, I don't know, even just like for myself, I can see like where the, the extreme, like rages come from. I get extremely upset sometimes. And like in the past before I was like, if they're happy and doing things I need to do to regulate the things I would do and say some terrible, obviously nothing like that. The
Speaker 3:Sandy's a terrible things. You can
Speaker 2:Get super, super angry and want to do something terrible. Like I'll throw an X clothes on the lawn. Like, you know, those are some problematic things with like that. Um, but I think it's important to know that like, this is because Catherine was the type of person that she was. Right. And then some of these other things, it's the combination of all the factors. It's like how we know some other prominent serial killers, like went through absolute terrible things, had had traumas, you know, were abused and all that. And like, it's just interesting to speculate on how all those combined factors make them capable of doing these things. But it doesn't mean that if you do have this mental illness, right. That you are going to do these. Exactly. Yeah. Because people with mental illnesses again, are not more likely to be violent, um, because of their mental illnesses. Anyway. Um, so a few days later in an attempt to get to Queensland where David lived with his new girlfriend, she coerced a neighbor to drive her there after three and a half with violence. Um, at some point swinging around a knife to the point where the woman's cheek was cut. Right. Um, the woman was only able to escape after asking Catherine if they could stop for gas. And I was like, sure, that makes sense. Like, yeah, we need gas. I need to stop in the bathroom. Anyway, whatever the woman locked herself in like the office in the service station. And like Catherine apparently tried to literally beat the door down to get to the woman and then took a small boy hostage in the process, like held him at knife point. And the police were called obviously. And they was a weird detail, disowned her with Bruins. I don't know if this is because he had a small boy hostage or if that was the only thing available to them, but I just picture them like running all around her and just like smacking her with broomsticks. I don't know what apparently worked. Um, they were able to disarm her and get, you know, the okay. Um, she was then detained and sent to the Morisset psychiatric hospital. And while she was there, apparently she told the nurses with her whole chest that she also intended to kill the mechanic at the service station because he had repaired David's car, which had allowed him to leave her. And so she was gonna kill him. Then when she got to Queensland, she was going to kill David. And for some reason David's mother, which I don't know what his mom did to her, but yeah,
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's missing there. Right.
Speaker 2:Was released on August 9th, 1976. Um, and David left his new girlfriend and moved in with his mom so that they could take care of Catherine together. And so she was released into the care of David and his mother.
Speaker 3:Oh, my are the away from me. He's he's terrified. Yeah. A lot
Speaker 2:Of things. Um, they moved to Woodbridge where she was able to get another job at another meat factory, um, at a planet Ipswich, which was not far away from where they lived. And then they had another baby together on March 6th, 1980, which these poor babies, I don't know why in God's name, you would have another child as a woman, especially knowing the circumstances like a harm that she forcing him to have sex three times a
Speaker 3:Day, bare minimum. No wonder. I'm surprised they only had two thus far.
Speaker 2:Her name is Natasha Marie. That's cute. And it a cute name. Right. Um, so that was in 1980 and four years later, for whatever reason, maybe she got bored. I don't know what was up. She decided that after all that she's over David and left him,
Speaker 3:Ran off after busting this, head with a fryer, hurting him on the cheek and beaten his, like child killed him and his new girlfriend, like literally
Speaker 2:Causing all kinds of chaos just to get him back. She decides. Yep. So she moved back in with her parents, um, went back to work in the meat plant. Eventually she did into her back. Um, she had to go on disability so she could no longer work at the meat plant, which, um, embedding was hard for her because that was what she loved to do. I guess that's probably an outlet. Also gave her less energy to be out here hurting people or, well, no, that's,[inaudible] really, that is not the case at all. Um, so, and 86 to two years after she left David, she meets another David named David Saunders and he's 38 at the time. And he works at it as a minor. Um, my name, what, I'm not sure to set a minor. Um, I'm sure it's like Cole or something a few weeks after meeting, he moved in with Catherine and her two daughters, but still kept his own apartment in scone. Um, she didn't like that. He kept his own apartment, which I kind of
Speaker 3:[inaudible] in that
Speaker 2:Situation. I'm glad he kept us on the cockpit Viva and be like what you need to know also spaces. Nice. Like I, yeah. I can see both both sides for sure. Yeah, no, no, no. I think it's definitely smart in this situation regardless, but it's not smart in general, but that's, that's one of those days you have to have conversations about it with your partner, like be on the same page. And clearly they weren't. Um, because she would get super, super jealous and have these fits of rage and throw him out. They're all shut out and they need to go back and move back into his apartment. And then she would like him to come back and he would so dangerous cycle. That's not super healthy at all. Um, so living together, not living together, having separate spaces, this kind of behavior is unhealthy period. It may of 1987 during one particularly angry moment of rage, Catherine, to this trigger warning for animal abuse and violence, she took his two month old, dig a puppy, held it up in front of them and split the puppy full stop to demonstrate what she did in him. If he ever cheated on her puppy, two month old puppy, David was known as just like a guy who loved dogs. Like
Speaker 3:She wanted to really, really rock
Speaker 2:His, like upset him. And she took it out on his dog because he loved his style. Then go help. You looks like they're cute. They're so cute. Yeah. I really
Speaker 1:Don't even know why I'm surprised she set her own child on the train tracks.
Speaker 2:I know. Right. And I was listening to another podcast. That story and their reaction was very similar, but I think it's just like a puppy, like in terrible what she did to her, her daughter and that she would put her in that kind of harm's way. But I guess any smaller, helpless, like defensive creature to hold it up and then to slit his throat, just to prove a point basically like what the, but that wasn't enough to prove her point, because then she also took a frying pan and smacked him upside the head with her in these, I guess it just makes us the job. It gets the job done. She knocked him unconscious. Oh my gosh. But yeah, I mean he stayed and in 1988 they had their first kid together. Maybe that they named Sarah, no, they then bought a house together. Well, David put down a deposit and then Catherine paid it off with her, um, disability money. And she decorated the home on her own. She was an avid hunter and she was particularly good at hunting and skinning rabbits. So she decorated the house like wall-to-wall they said even the ceiling was covered with pelts, skull, skins, horns, animal traps, leather jackets, boots, knives, machetes rates, picks, forge, like does all of her, like all of her favorite things, I guess she was like obsessed with like, literally sounds like my own personal health. I mean, it does sound super intense and scary and gross. And like, you know, I'm down for a good, you know, cottage cabin, aesthetic hunter vibe, like for the weekend or something. I mean, I don't love it, but I get it. You know, when people like have like a deer on the wall, like I see it. I don't love it, but yeah.
Speaker 3:[inaudible] like the bear skin rug. That's the thing when those happened,
Speaker 2:This, why is it on the ceiling girl? Why
Speaker 3:The ceiling with holes when people put bonds and people put little[inaudible]. I
Speaker 2:Just imagine that the air there has to be so thick,
Speaker 3:Like may rank and
Speaker 2:She don't care about the safety, but that can't be safe for children, machete, machetes
Speaker 3:On the wall at any moment they could fall down.
Speaker 1:No, those kids have to be so
Speaker 2:Much. Um, so in another instance of violence, Katherine hit Saunders and then stabbed him in the stomach with a pair of scissors. Um, apparently this was enough for him to be like, yeah, nah, I gotta go. So he moved back to scone. Good for you. And then when he went back to their shared home to get his clothes, of course, Catherine had cut them all to pieces. So I'm fearing that the violence will continue to escalate and that his life might be in danger. He took a leave from work and went into hiding smart. It is smart. But remember they do have a kid together. So yeah, when he comes back to try to see his child, he finds that Catherine has filed for a protection order against him. So there it's called an apprehended violence order. Um, and she claimed that she was afraid of him and afraid that he might be violent towards her. So she needed a protection. She used her womanhood. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Once again. Yeah. I hate
Speaker 3:That show that he was stabbed
Speaker 1:In the stomach. Like she would probably be like, oh, that was in self defense
Speaker 2:Or something. Yeah. And like, I hate to say it, but like who's going to be, yeah. Yeah. That's so sad. But I will say like she had this reputation in their town for being like incredibly violent. So I just don't understand how up to this point, what do we have? We have two abused and better men, an instance where she tried to kill her own child. And then she went to town, Sonia run an ads, went to a service station, told the nurses after the fact that she was going to kill the mechanic, like, what does it take for them to get this lady some help,
Speaker 3:Real help, you know, like
Speaker 1:A smooth search. We'll definitely let you know that like she needs help.
Speaker 2:Right. And this, it was in the eighties. So they got the Googles or something. They can pull up records. Um, so after that she meets and then in 1999, John chilling work and there's not a whole lot about their relationship together. I'm sure it had its ups and downs. Just like all of her other relationships. She got pregnant by him and he was a former coworker and they had a son named Eric and they were together for three years. So she has$2 daughters from the first David, her daughter, Sarah from second David. And now her son from John. Okay. Yeah. So four total. Um,
Speaker 3:And then things just escalate from here. So she meets this man named John Price,
Speaker 2:Affectionately called pricey by people who know him. Um, he was said to be an echo, a terrific bloke. Uh, everybody said that he was like as a super likable fun sweet guy. Um, he already had three children before he met Catherine, um, and started dating her. So the situation was, he was married and he continued to be married even when dating Katherine, but they, I guess either had irreconcilable differences or something was going on where they decided to be separated. Um, but it's believed that John was still very much in love with his wife and his wife very much thought highly of him because she insisted that he keep the family home even after they separated. Right. So that made, it had to just been a situation where like they grew apart or she like needed some space or some time or something. Um, and just unfortunately, during the separation he met Catherine. Um, so his two-year-old stayed with his wife and the other two children lived with him. So he had the three total, um, supposedly prices aware of CA CA while Catherine's is violent history, but allow her to move into this house anyway. So I don't know if he was really nice or just like super enamored or what the case was, but he would change her. I me, well, she wasn't described as super hot, but I will say that people said she was really good in bed and had a super high sex drive. So I guess between that, and once they got in it, she wouldn't let them leave. That that was enough. Um, not the milkshake,
Speaker 3:All the boys or at least the one
Speaker 2:She was interested in. Um, his children liked her at first and there's a quote that said life initially was like a bunch of roses. So apparently it was smooth sailing at first. Um, in 1998 they had a huge fight because price refused to marry her and refuse to file a formal divorce from his wife. Um, I heard on another podcast that she then took money from him and bought her own engagement ring. I mean, move also like girl legs, like
Speaker 3:Her whole life, her whole life onto like please,
Speaker 2:Um, to get back at him though she recorded quote unquote stolen items from his job and sent it to the job. And these stolen items were literally out of date medical kits that no one was going to use anyway. But I guess, because it was like directly against their policy, he got fired and he had been there for 17 years. So he stole them and she recorded. Yep. She snitched on him, got him fired and he lost his pension and yeah, I mean, that's almost two decades that he had been there. So I really want to know why they wouldn't just make an exception or like talk to him or give him a warning or whatever the case may be. But
Speaker 1:Yeah. Especially since nobody was going to use them anymore.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. They were expired, but I don't know. I guess it was just the violation. Um, he kicked her out that same day. Yeah. Yeah. But a few months later he got back with her, but he wouldn't let her move back in the house, which I'm sure she took super well to that. Um, their fights in their arguments got so violent, continued to escalate to the point where some of his homies would not engage with him if he was going to continue to engage with her. So, you know, is that when your friends got to go to the boundary, like this is actually super toxic and I can't be around it and I can't watch you be around it. So I got to go, oh my God. Yeah. So this is when we get to the really intense. Okay. This is the intention. We haven't even
Speaker 3:Done the intention
Speaker 2:2000, the violence escalated yet again, um, she stabbed him in the chest. It doesn't say with what I'm assuming probably a pair of scissors again, because I mean, he doesn't die. Um, but did you die? No, not yet. Um, so he kicked her out yet. Again, I don't even know how she finished said way back in the house. Cause he said he wasn't gonna let her move back in. But sometimes she was there on February 29th. He took out a restraining order to protect himself and his children, he even said to his coworkers that if he didn't make it to work or something happened to him that Katherine had done it. So like, they were like, whoa, like, don't go home. Like, we're worried about you. This is really, really like escalating. And he said that if he didn't go home, he was afraid that Catherine would do harm to his kids, which I thought that was a rock and a hard place. You gotta scoop them kids up and flee though. Like it was the only time I'm sure his, um, wife would take him back or not, but yeah, totally take the kids, you know? So he got home that evening and the house was empty. Catherine had apparently sent the kids away to sleep over and her herself, she wasn't at the house. Um, he spent the evening hanging out with his neighbors who apparently must have also been friends. They must have a relationship with one another. And then he turned it around, living at 11:00 PM. So a normal day for, um, price was to wake up early in the morning, had to work, you know, he was pretty consistent and prompt. Um, so the next morning when the neighbors still saw Price's car in the driveway, she was concerned. Um, so rewind back to the night before, earlier that day, Catherine went out, bought herself some nice lingerie. Um, apparently she made strange recordings with her children, making comments that were later said to be crude. They were strange enough for the people that saw them to be like, is everything good? Like should, should we do a check-in? Are you okay? Um, but apparently they didn't check in quickly enough because she came home prices asleep and she watching TV, took a shower, what come up for sex. And then he went back to sleep. So fast forward to the next day, the neighbors like the car still in the driveway something's off. And then when he didn't show up to work, his employer was like, well, this is completely unlike him. So I'm going to send someone to the house to check on them when they did the neighbor and the coworker knocked on the back room window, like where he knew his bedroom was. And there was no answer. And then when they walked around to the front, they saw that there was blood on the front door. So they called the police police got there at 8:00 AM. They broke down the back door and they found Catherine completely unconscious, apparently due to taking a bunch of sleeping pills. Um, so this is when it gets really strange. They see inside the house, hung on a meat hook over a door, the S like a meat suit, like the skin skin, the human being. Whoa. Yep.
Speaker 3:So, oh no. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It looks like a suit. Like it was the entire scan, including the face ears, scalp and neck. Oh my God. I don't remember. She's got all kinds of nice skills. Cause she's worked on her house, her entire life. She hunts and skins animals. She's oh, that's so gross. Yep. This is like jeepers
Speaker 3:Creepers. Yeah. It's really the second my skin crawl.
Speaker 2:So apparently do the blood evidence. They were able to determine that he woke up to being stabbed and attempted to run away from her, got to the front door, made it out of the front door and either fell backwards back into the house or was dragged back inside by Catherine to the hallway where she let him bleed out. Right. The autopsy were built. Then he had been stabbed 37 times. Oh my. Yeah. Hours after he bled out, she then took to scanning him on that scans from the meat hook. Me and her[inaudible]
Speaker 3:Ate breakfast. It gets, it gets better. Me. She left a small
Speaker 2:Square skin of skin on the body and it was the part of his body where she had stabbed him is where the scar was from where she had stabbed him previously. And that wasn't sadistic enough. She then the capitated him, she then said and cooked various
Speaker 3:Parts of his body. No, no, no, no. I was thinking about this. I was like, no, I'm
Speaker 2:Good. Yeah, no, I'm glad I ate before. Um, she also prepared Bates, potato, pumpkin, zucchini, cabbage, yellow squash and gravy and set the table. I like all of those[inaudible]
Speaker 3:We just, we sat over here. Oh, no
Speaker 2:Settings. She put notes with the children's names. Children's names and had completely, fully intended to feed the kids. Their dad shot. Uh, there was a third middle, found his garden in the backyard and it's believed that Catherine had possibly attempted to eat the meal herself, but couldn't stomach it. So she talks about his head was found price. It is John Price head was found in a pot with vegetables that was still warm. Once the authorities arrived, they were going to like, she liked did all of this and this one night. Well, she had to, if that was the only time she killed. So she stabbed him, skinned him. Cause that off cook this huge meal all within several hours and then took a ton of pills to maybe possibly try to kill herself. I don't know. She also had a range. What was left of his body with his left arm, draped over a soda bottle and his legs crossed. She put a note on top of him written on a photo of him and the, so the spelling of the original note is really bad. I'm going to read it the way it's supposed to like what her intent was. She intended to write. She put time. Got you back, Jonathan, for raping my daughter, you to Beck that's Price's daughter for Ross for little John that's bright Price's son now play with little John's Dick John Price. So she was alleging that he had been, I guess, abusing the children, but it was all proven to be completely false. So I don't know if this was some weird attempt at like trying to justify or something, but I'm sorry. I guess if someone reached my children, I would a hundred percent probably want to murder them. I don't know if I would skin them alive and then cook them and try
Speaker 3:To find them to be able to do that. Like what that's
Speaker 2:A whole nother level. Yes. So sometime during this, this night where she's not only killing, but scanning and cooking him, she went to the city and got a thousand dollars out of the ATM out of his account. For what reason? Who knows? But she was pretty busy that night. Um, she initially offered to plead guilty to manslaughter, but that was rejected by the court. And then she had a hearing on February, 2000 in February of 2001 for the murder. She pled not guilty. Like you really tried and said, right? When the trial commends justice O'Keefe game, the potential jury pool of the opportunity to step down just to the groups of nature of the evidence and photos and five decided to take advantage of that offer. And they did bounce, right? Uh, the concert was said to be so gruesome and unnerving that the first responders on the scene, some, some of them need therapy and some of them quit right then and there on the spot. You would probably be me.
Speaker 3:When I saw that there was blood on the door, I'd be like, Hmm, I'm going home.[inaudible] clean up in the bathroom at Panera. You think I'm about to do this right?
Speaker 2:When I walked inside the house. Cause they said it took him a minute to register that the, the meat scoot suit, the skin was like acumen Gaskin. In that moment, when I tell you, I would've just walked out, like I have to go, like, I am a thought, like I'm tearing up thinking about it. Cause that would be so disgusting. It's so stressful. And so set, like just that is depressed. I want to learn
Speaker 3:The house down, take no pictures or whatever you need for your effort. Instead of just thinking about it. I know I'm going to have a nightmare
Speaker 2:About it tonight. So I can't even imagine seeing that with your own eyes. You probably can never get that out of you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no
Speaker 1:Images of gumballs tonight or something.
Speaker 2:That's good luck. Something. I need a palate cleanser. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so, um, when the RI witness list was right out, a lot of parents that were more jurors decided to drop out, I'm not super sure why, but then Catherine decided to change her pleaded guilty. And the jury was dismissed altogether justice O'Keefe um, you know, wanted to play things by the bug, make sure that this geek, while guilty plea that she was entering into would hold up. So he ordered a psych assessment to determine if she could truly enter this plea, like knowingly assigned map, sound mind, and like understanding the consequences of it, her legal team at plan to build the defense that Catherine, um, suffered and Asia and dissociation. And that's how she was able to commit this really disgusting, up crime. Um, the claim was supported by the psychiatrist, but they did consider her to be saying and not to like stand trial and enter the guilty plea. Um, but even though she pled guilty, she still refused to accept the responsibility for her actions. She went so far as to ask her lawyers to ask the court, if she could be excused while they discuss the details of the case. No, ma'am
Speaker 3:[inaudible] accountability.
Speaker 2:It looks like it's being confronted with what the you did. So interesting. Already know, heard about cases where the people who commit the crimes, like hearing all the details. So it's interesting. It is interesting. Um, and I mean, they said they agreed that she dissociated, there was just so much intention. It felt, seems to me that was put into it, but she became completely hysterical when they started telling her what she had done really where she needed to be sedated. Yeah. Was she hysterical about what she did or was she a struggle about what could potentially happen to her? That's a good question. But they said, because she had already entered into a guilty place, so she knew what was going to happen to her. I'm assuming, you know? Um, but when they started talking about specifically the skinning and the decapitation, she like lost it, um, and had to be removed. So
Speaker 1:When she was like an a, she could, she had been like a different state of mind. And then like, she came down kind of like
Speaker 2:Very possible people. I mean, even people with the soundness of mind, like see bread, you know, quote on quote, when they get mad enough and cook, you know, like I've been in fights or situations where I've got so angry that once I came down from that anger, I couldn't completely recall all the details of the incident. So like, I just, I can't imagine what state allows you to be in a place where you can take what, eight hours to skin your partner? No, that takes a lot of like knowledge and skill to make a whole meal with side dishes. Right. And to keep that one in square of skin, where does dabbling was that she caused, like, that feels so malicious and thought out and you sit at the table for the kid. I forgot about that. Like when I run a note and they're moving out. Yeah. So on November 8th, just as a Keith pointed out the nature of the crime and her lack of remorse requires. So there penalty, which I don't disagree with at all. Um, he said, quote, last minutes of John Price's life must have been Tom of abject terror for him as they were a time of utter enjoyment for her. And she has not expressed any contrition or Morrison release. She poses a serious threat to the security of society. So she was sentenced to life. Imprisonment, refuse to fix a non parole period and order that she be marked never to be released. That's the first time any woman in Australia has ever received such a harsh sentence. Wow. And it had the marital appeal. It[inaudible]
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:But the appeal was dismissed because wow. What the nerve? And like, you know, I try to maintain my status as a student of abolition and want to think outside of carceral justice. And I think because you know, those instances when people are like, where do you put the rapists in the burgers and stuff? It's like, yeah, but it's like going back to what, allow this to happen in the first place. And she was failed over and over and over and over and over again, my system, because there was so many opportunities to get this woman some help where it got to this point. So a hundred percent, I try to remind myself that while I sit here and also celebrate the fact that she's still in prison and will die there. Well, it's, it, it would be, it'd be ridiculous for us not to think that if for some reason she didn't go somewhere, right. That she would just continue doing this right. The way she did it to however many different men. Yeah. All of her children were just lucky that they didn't die. Right. So something needed to happen. Yeah. And for her it's being in prison her whole life, I think you could, I think you can still
Speaker 1:with the idea of abolition and still support the isolation of people who are hell bent on knowing people who are, and especially because like you said, like she was felt over and over and over and over again from like childhood. So part of abolition would be to step in when people go through adversity in childhood and check in with them constantly to see how it's affecting them, rather than just being like, oh, mental health is a hoax or whatever the.
Speaker 2:I also very much got the bother, but I was like, oh, that's just Catherine. It's like, no, somebody help her. Like she's known in town for being violent.
Speaker 3:Okay. Where did, what does anybody knowing about it? You know,
Speaker 2:Like, yeah. But apparently
Speaker 3:In prison she hasn't had any incidents, any incidences of violence, are you serious?
Speaker 2:Yes. I'm like, that's what me up. Cause I'm like, I know you needed help. I know you were filled out system, but you're also aware enough to know when, to like chill out. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Um, it's present to her. So she can't just like use her sexual prowess as like a way to like get them, to lure them in and like that. They probably not follow for that charming. They'd be like. That's why we're here too.
Speaker 2:Well, definitely. She's like the Nana of the prison. She really takes other girls under her wing and like, not rant.
Speaker 3:[inaudible] like, that
Speaker 2:Is the wow of like her, her prison's day. She does not seem like the motherly caring type of person. Yeah. Right. But maybe she just performed what she thinks she needs to do to survive. Yeah, she does because it's like said that people respect her there and she doesn't have to use violence to get that respect, which I found really interesting because I would have thought that she wouldn't have been knocking heads. And that's how she got her saying she got her respect as, by like being on the up and up and like talking to people and guiding them. Right. And also
Speaker 1:It was super gender too. She cause she was, she ever really violent toward girls or women.
Speaker 3:And it wasn't
Speaker 1:Like were her daughters, I mean, it was super up, but I'm like, was it physical or was it like neglect? Cause like with the daughter, like she left her on the train. She didn't punish, she like punch or kick or do anything physical to the girls.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Um, I mean, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she did. She been on her husband and yeah.
Speaker 1:I just think that's really interesting that like all of, uh, all of the people that she was violent towards like three men in a row was like, yeah, I'm like, I'm, I'm a you up. But then like soon as she gets around women, it's like, okay.
Speaker 2:Right. That's fine. So it is interesting. There was the woman that she cut on the cheek after
Speaker 3:Dropping
Speaker 2:Her to, she was going to kill David's mom and then his girlfriend,
Speaker 3:I think it was just anyone who went her way. But like those who were closest
Speaker 2:To her were harmed the most. And those were her partners, which are men. Yeah. But it doesn't explain why she went to prison and was like, well I'm good now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Catherine, um, you gotta chill out there. Well, I guess she did chill out, but um, skinning people is just a step too far. I just don't. I don't understand. Still in jail. Do you know how around, like how old she is? Yeah. Let's say she was born in 1955. So she's like seven deep inner seventies. Yeah. Did
Speaker 3:I do my math? Right? I think so.[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Never math for me.
Speaker 3:[inaudible] late sixties. 66, maybe
Speaker 2:60. Oh, she's still young.
Speaker 3:She got some time. It's not
Speaker 2:By any means. So I'm going to show y'all a picture please. And we'll put it on the Instagram too. So y'all can see this. I just can't see myself.
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 4:No,
Speaker 3:It's, it's a no, it's a hell now when she was younger, like, oh yeah. That's the only adding up for me. Maybe like in Australia. 10 is like a[inaudible]. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Catherine night. I'm going to wow. Thank you. [inaudible] excited
Speaker 2:To get y'all's reaction though. Cause as I was reading it started, I was like, what the? That was horrifying. Yeah. All right. Y'all well, until next week, check us out on all our socials. Um, on Instagram at Inn Kyla podcast, Facebook is the same Twitter is that I in Kyla pod, we're also on Tik TOK. We are, We're going to try to post on there. I need one of the youngest to help you figure out how to run that.
Speaker 3:We're millennials don't know how to do the top. We're not the geriatric millennials.[inaudible] oh, skinny Jean[inaudible]. We don't use LOL
Speaker 2:In text messaging anymore.[inaudible]
Speaker 3:Out loud.[inaudible] figure
Speaker 2:Out the tech tech stuff. We might eventually get to doing some mini stories on there. So we'll let y'all know if anybody wants to help us with that. Please feel free to reach out to help.
Speaker 3:Okay. I'll see you next week.